The mainstream media and pro abortion lobbyists will capitalize on this and already are doing so. Not because they truly feel for Tiller's grieving family, or because of the cold-blooded murder itself, but they want to portray the nonviolent pro-life movement in a blood thirsty and vengeful light. What you won't hear is that fact that Tiller's killer was not affiliated with any pro-life group or movement, and that his wife has reported that he has a history of mental illness.
The mainstream media and far left extremists will paint Tiller in the light of a martyr because of this. Despite the cold-blooded, unjust and hypocritical murder, Tiller was a baby killer. That doesn't change because of his murder. The fact that this is going to be overlooked and people won't know the real truth about Tiller is what concerns me.
Tiller was put on trial for criminal charges of illegal abortions. The law in Kansas says that you are supposed to have a peer physician sign off on late-term abortions, and that the reason must be to keep the woman healthy. This was the loophole Tiller was using, and the "peer physician" that signed off on these abortions actually had a close personal relationship with Tiller and for this he was put on trial. Keep in mind that many of the late term abortions that Tiller performed were on babies that are 21 to 27 weeks old. See below for a visual.
Check out some real life accounts of patients' experiences at Tiller's clinic here.
Here is a testimonial from of patient of Dr. Tiller's on Bill O'Reilly
I do not point out this things to endorse the killing of Dr. Tiller. It was an abhorrent act. But people who are watching the news now need to know the truth about Tiller, and not just that he was a martyr for the abortionist cause.
Just as the killing of George Tiller is a hypocritical and unjust act, so is the hypocracy of Barack Obama and the mainstream media. The outrage they have expressed over the killing of Tiller is justifiable and credable. However, their utter silence in the past on the record of Tiller killing babies is NOT. These late-term fetuses are humans. Late-term and partial birth abortions are ILLEGAL in his practicing state of Kansas and in most state with the exception of the previously mentioned mental health clause. This means that in the eyes of the laws these late term fetuses are people. How is the killing of one human any worse than the killing of 5000?
Sources:CNSnews, FoxNews, Kansas Liberty, Dr-Tiller
The pro-life movement is as radical as the pro-abortion movement. The only median is pro-choice, and America has to learn to accept it.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Dr. Tiller's death is a travesty, I cannot help but be glad that this is taking away from some of the pro-life movement's swagger. The pro-lifers need to realize that no matter what, abortions, legal or illegal, will be had. Take illegal drugs for instance. Even though they are illegal, people still seek them out and obtain them. It's human nature to do so. If one wants something badly enough, one will do anything in ones own power to obtain it. The very core of basic human nature philosophy. Keep abortions safe. Why kill two birds with one stone?
Most of the fascists that read/write this blog will have some lame rebuttal for my viewpoint.
But that's why America is great.
By your rationale, Anonymous, rape should be legal. Sounds extreme but think of it this way: If a man really wants to rape a woman, he is going to do so. So why not have a different group of men, affiliated with the government to some extent, capture a dozen or so unwilling women, place them in captivity, and then charge men to be allowed to rape them in a controlled environment? They're going to seek it out anyway if they want it badly enough. It's human nature to seek out what you want so badly.
ReplyDeleteThere's my lame rebuttal for your clearly superior, progressive, and sophisticated viewpoint.
Fascists can be "aristocrats or democrats, revolutionaries and reactionaries, proletarians and anti-proletarians, pacifists and anti-pacifists"
~Benito Mussolini
I'm sorry, but I don't buy your laments over Tiller's murder. The anti-choice movement WANTED this to happen. You have been calling for it for years through your rants and intolerance. Groups like yours make targets of the left. I think it's hilarious how the anti-choice people have been dancing around this issue - "Oh, it's a travesty, but IT WAS JUSTIFIED." This was the main point of your article. Why don't you man up and say what you really mean - you think it's great that wacko vigilante enacted his own form of justice.
ReplyDeleteI don't like abortion. Early term, late term, it's all ugly ugly ugly. But the decision, ESPECIALLY in the case of late-term abortion, is not an easy one. It is made with much emotion, many tears, and many prayers. It is the most personal of decisions. These women have a hard enough time without self-righteous protestors in their face pretending they know what the woman's situation is.
How many of those 5,000 babies were aborted because they would have died a painful death moments after delivery? How many would have caused the mother's death if they weren't aborted? I don't know and neither do you, because it is personal and every decision is different. But I did notice that, in the link YOU posted to the anti-Tiller website, most of the women were aborting babies that were wanted, planned, and were facing nothing but terrible options. Some of the women had bad experiences, but those women all CHOSE to be there, and were there for serious reasons. Not one of the women in those stories was a healthy woman aborting a healthy baby.
You seek to reduce abortions - a noble cause that most people would support you in. But Tiller served a necessary purpose. He saved many women's lives. When it becomes necessary to abort a late-term pregnancy, regular OB/GYNs won't do it. Many can't do it. Where does Tiller's murder leave those women who NEED his services, and may die without them?
I would urge people like you to redirect your rhetoric. Help women, don't berate and criticize them when you have no idea what they're going through. Help those children who are already born, and living crap lives with abusive or neglectful families. If you profess to be pro-life, be pro-ALL-life, including women, including Dr. Tiller. Otherwise you're just a self-righteous hypocrite.
~Mel
Kansas City, Kansas
P.S. I would also like to point out that Tiller kept a list of parents wishing to adopt unwanted babies. You could have also pasted the link to the story from the guy who adopted a baby the mother tried to abort. She wanted Tiller to abort her baby for no good reason, and HE REFUSED. He instead helped her set up an adoption. He wasn't the blood-thirsty monster you wish to paint him as.
"I could feel my baby's dead body inside of mine. This baby had thrilled me with kicks and flutters, those first soft tickles of life bringing a smile to my face and my hand to my rounding belly. Now this baby floated, limp and heavy, from one side to the other, as I rolled in my bed.
ReplyDeleteAnd within a day, I started to bleed. My body, with or without a doctor's help, was starting to expel the fetus. Technically, I was threatening a spontaneous abortion, the least safe of the available options.
I did what any pregnant patient would do. I called my doctor. And she advised me to wait. (...)
On my fourth morning, with the bleeding and cramping increasing, I couldn't wait any more. I called my doctor and was told that since I wasn't hemorrhaging, I should not come in. Her partner, on call, pedantically explained that women can safely lose a lot of blood, even during a routine period.
I began calling labor and delivery units at the top five medical centers in my area. I told them I had been 19 weeks along. The baby is dead. I'm bleeding, I said. I'm scheduled for a D&E in a few days. If I come in right now, what could you do for me, I asked.
Don't come in, they told me again and again. "Go to your emergency room if you are hemorrhaging to avoid bleeding to death. No one here can do a D&E today, and unless you're really in active labor you're safer to wait.""
Why didn't her own Ob/Gyn do the procedure?
"I can't do these myself," said my doctor. "I trained at a Catholic hospital."
George Tiller endured decades of terrorism to help women like these, women in unspeakably awful situations whom very few people were willing to help, given the price domestic terrorists had decided that anyone who helped them would have to pay. Now he has given his life.
~Susan
"Tiller was put on trial for criminal charges of illegal abortions."
ReplyDeleteAnd acquitted. Convenient that you left that part out. But of course, conservative extremists know the truth better than the courts who had all the evidence in front of them, right?
I appreciate your comment, Mel. However, the point of the article was NOT that the killing was justified. This was clear. The target was the media's hypocritical reaction to a hypocritical crime. You apparently didn't read the article very well.
ReplyDeleteVigilante justice can never be tolerated, no matter how "just" people may think it is. It is a slippery slope and the support of it would result in chaos and lawlessness. This INCLUDES the case of Dr. Tiller's murder.I always say what I really mean.
I was incorrect when I said 5000 babies. By Tiller's own estimation he aborted 60,000 babies. Tiller PUT ON TRIAL for aborting late-term babies under false pretenses. A single instance of a refusal of an abortion was COMMON SENSE, even for Tiller. If he said there was no need for an abortion, then there REALLY must have been no need for it.
The purpose of the interviews with his patients is to point out that Tiller is not the savior of women some would paint him as.
To be frank, I don't care what the women are going through. Unless having a baby will severely damage a woman's physical health, they made that choice, and should have the baby. If you aren't ready to have a child, don't have sex.
On the issue of unwanted pregnancies in instances of rape I have a very very difficult time forming an opinion on this controversial matter. In my mind, and in the minds of many other pro-life people, I struggle with the topic.
Find me a kid who who is living a "crap-life" in "abusive or neglectful families" who really wishes his mother had aborted him. They would be few and far between. The chance at life, the chance at succeeding in life and making your mark in this world is the greatest opportunity that can be given and all children should be afforded that opportunity.
Conservative voice -
ReplyDeleteThank you for your reply. I don't think that the kids living "crap lives" wish they were aborted, and I definitely don't think they should have been. I used to work with kids such as these, and I loved and cherished every one of them. My point in mentioning those kids, is that it seems like "pro-life" people are most concerned with making sure the baby is born. Past that, they're on their own. I don't think that's right.
I saw the effects of some of the most ugly things you can imagine - physical abuse, sexual molestation of a 3 year old, neglect, malnourishment, a child who was burned and scarred when his dad's meth lab blew up. A child of a schizophrenic dad who was forcing his anti-psychotic meds down her throat. A little girl whose mom was passed out drunk at 8 in the morning and didn't bring her to school, so she walked to us in her pajamas, with bare feet through the snow. I could go on and on.
I am so happy these kids are alive, but they are not healthy. We have agencies such as SRS to help these kids, but they are so severely underfunded and understaffed that nothing ever gets done until the case has progressed to a point of disaster. We called SRS so many times on the little girl with the drunk mom, that they told us they didn't have enough resources to help and we had to stop calling unless she was being physically abused.
I understand why people are passionate about abortion. But I wish that the protestors out there screaming at women when they have no idea what that woman is going through, would take even half that time and help some of the kids who are already born. Where is the outrage for these kids? Where are the passionate protestors holding signs of babies disfigured by neglect, drug use, or abuse?
You say "The chance at life, the chance at succeeding in life and making your mark in this world is the greatest opportunity that can be given and all children should be afforded that opportunity." I agree whole-heartedly. But just simply being born does not afford you that opportunity. Sometimes you see a success story, someone who pulls themselves out of the disfunction they were born into. More often than not you see these kids grow up and repeat the mistakes of their parents. They end up in jail. They get lost in the system.
Abortion is a touchy issue, for obvious reasons. I too have trouble forming an opinion on every aspect. That is why I leave it to the mothers to decide. Only they know their life and their situation.
I was raised Christian, and my church taught that the bible is to be used to guide our own lives. But it is strictly against judging other people. We should interpret the bible into our own lives, but when we use it to judge and condemn other people, we are sinning just as much as anyone else.
Best,
Mel
Mel-
ReplyDeleteI'll keep this short. I think your generalization of pro-lifers is off base and incorrect. On what basis do you really believe that they just let these kids that you put your heart into "out on their own"?
Simply because their focus is on abortion doesn't mean they don't care about the rest of the atrocities taking place in the world. Could you care less about the genocide in Darfur due to the fact that you are focused on neglected and abused kids? I doubt that, so it is an unfair generalization to use the same argument with pro lifers. I don't believe their cause is any less important and pivotal than is your cause is. They are equally just and important.
CV -
ReplyDeleteI apologize for overgeneralizing. I know that pro-lifers are my relatives, my friends, co-workers, and neighbors. I don't think they are "wrong," I know they are very well-intentioned people. It's not hard to see why someone would be adamantly against abortion.
I also recognize that many pro-lifers adopt children, which is so admirabe and so needed. They certainly fall into the category of people who ARE helping these kids after they're born.
I guess in my earlier statement, I was referring to the militant protestors. As I said, it's not hard to understand why they disagree with abortion. But I disagree with their extreme tactics. I don't understand what justifies them to confront women who are walking into the clinic. They have no idea what brought her there or if she even wants the abortion.
Such extreme tactics often lead to more extreme tactics, as seen in the murder of Dr. Tiller.
I grew up in Wichita, KS. I was 9 during the "Summer of Mercy." My mom, a pro-life Christian, refused invitations from neighbors to participate. They wanted her to bring my sister and me to hold signs and chant on the street corner. My mom flat-out refused, telling them that she did not believe such tactics were right. She lost a few friends over her refusal to participate. We then spent the next few months carefully choosing our driving routes. My parents tried to distract us when we did have to drive by, so we wouldn't see the horrible pictures. It is this extremism, these disgusting tactics, that I think gives the pro-life movement a bad name.
I find it hard to believe that ANY woman (I'm sure there are rare cases, but rare) would carry a baby for 7, 8, 9 months, then decide that it's an inconvenience. By that time, you have bonded, you have felt the baby move inside you, you have prepared room in your heart and in your life. But the protestors and people like Bill O'Reilly seem to be operating under the assumption that it's a flip decision the woman is making for selfish reasons. Every testimonial I've read, even on the site you provided, said that the woman wanted the baby, and was choosing to terminate because of some horrible twist of fate.
I do apologize, because I did something that I abhor - I let the extremists define the movement. I understand this is something to be careful of, because not everyone is standing on the street corner with graphic posters. It is those who are that are the most visible.
I do hope there is some common ground to be found. Issues are resolved not in their differences, but in their agreements.
Best,
Mel
Barbara Walters on the View was saying she wished that Bill O'Reilly would have used the term'' Late Abortion Doctor for Dr Tiller.Instead of calling him a killer.
ReplyDeleteSounds as if Miss Walters is trying to detach herself from the Truth . Having not to think about the innocent babies murdered every day by these Abortionists.
I have had much time to think about this subject that hardly anyone really wants to talk about. Just quickly hit and miss ,then leave the issue.
Life is what we live and know of.
Life is that which has its own movement....it is not mechanical.
Life of a human being in the womb knows enough to suck its thumb....what reason would this happen? Maybe in an attempt to be content in the babies own environment? As the baby grows he/she will need more room and thus the reason for the kicks and shoves ....and the inconvenience for the soon to be mom .
The stretch marks , the aches and pains ....the tired all over feeling. The gaining weight . All part of the process of human life existing in its own protected environment until the babies full term is up.
So, then what is meant by Late Term Abortion? It means nothing more then to kill this life ....stripping away at its very being.
Think of it this way...would you eat a baby chick ,not knowing as you crack open its shell and see it moving? No, I would say you would not , after seeing the movement from within the cracked shell. You would realize it was a { baby chick } and not an egg.
It also has a few feathers, as it struggles to now survive outside the broken eggshell.
This sort of thing does not happen in this day and age, because commercial chicken farmers do not have a rooster to fertilize their chickens eggs. Thus the hens lay unfertilized eggs for human consumption.
Just think of all the fuss if one of those eggs just happened to have been fertile from a stray rooster. Great lawsuit huh? But these kind of chickens are kept in cages and their eggs slide down to the end and under to be picked up and put into containers for sale. So , chances of one of those eggs ever becoming sterile are nil unless one hen happened to get out of the cage and the barn...and take a walk to meet Mr. Rooster.
The old-fashioned way farmers used to check their eggs before modern means , that is....if they had let their hens free roam the grounds, would be to put a light or candle up behind the egg to see if it was fertile. If there was life, then it was put back for the hen to sit on and protect. That is the hens job...to keep the baby chick safe and the shell from cracking before its time.
So...what is Late Term Abortion? Nothing more than merely the killing of human life. The stripping away of its very being. That which came together to form life,and grew into a human being. The longer that life goes on in the womb,the stronger and more mature this human life becomes.
The proper term for this Late Term Abortion Dr. would be called in reality a 'Mature Life Killer'....mainly because that is just what it is, and rightfully so. If you face reality that is, and seek the truth.
Say what you mean , and mean what you say.
There has been way too much ''playing'' on the words of the truth.
May the good Lord have mercy upon Dr.Tillers soul.Taking the life away from innocent babies.